Hi, I'm Neal Carter, President of Okanagan Specialty Fruits Inc., and I made the GMO Arctic® apple. AMA!

This is an awesome accomplishment. How did you, and your company, overcome the [assumed] expensive regulatory hurdles that are in place; in the US? There is an assumption "out there" that only large players (read: DuPont, DOW, Monsanto, Syngenta etc) have the capitol/resources to enter the GMO market. Could you expand some on this over-all theme?

Hah...

It is expensive, but as a small company we managed to be creative and find some frugal solutions to otherwise expensive problems.

For us this meant doing most of the work in-house, taking longer in regulatory, and having our personnel wear multiple hats. Our research manager became regulatory manager over the last 5 years.

We also got a lot of free advice from both the private and public sector, and we didn't pay ourselves much for a long time!

GMOs are (unfairly) a controversial topic, with many people wanting them labeled or even banned outright.

Does Okanagan Specialty Fruits plan to do any major PR to try to educate people on the science and safety of GMOS and dispel the pseudoscience that many believe? Would you partner with other major GMO manufacturers?

For years we have been making a significant effort to educate both the industry and consumers of the benefits of genetic engineering.

As a small company we have made a significant commitment (2 of our 7 staff members) to educating consumers about GMOs. We have had to be creative in doing this and have worked with a host of different groups to project the benefits of GM crops.

We have answered questions on GMOanswers, we have engaged with dietitians and presented at conferences around the world. We respond to consumer questions through our website daily, and we put up educational blogs on our website, etc.

In terms of partnering, it would depend on the circumstance and our role. We are members of several industry groups that work on consumer outreach. (BIO, Biotech Canada, etc.)

Only seven staff members? Wow. That makes what you've done even more impressive.

I like how you're all making a strong effort at GMO education. I just fear that the audience for most of these efforts already very much agrees with you. You have to try to reach people who are more skeptical, but not entrenched in their beliefs. Unfortunately, I can't say I know the best way. I don't know the best media to reach the un-entrenched skeptics, but things like maybe the audiences of daytime shows like Dr. Oz, who unfortunately does peddle a lot of pseudoscience, might be convinced to do some pro-GMO segment? I don't know. I just know that you have to reach the broader audience who aren't going to specifically search for your educational blogs and the like.

Maybe even social media. Hell, I'm already called a Monsanto shill daily for my posts. Maybe somebody can actually make money off it instead of just being falsely accused.

All we can do, as a small company, is keep pounding away with our message. We do try to solicit champions when we can find them, but we are often preaching to the converted.

Even with social media, we are sometimes a small echo chamber.

Are you concerned that the very vocal anti-biotech crowd will hurt sales of the Arctic apple? This could probably be answered alongside /u/Sleekery question.

We think Arctic apples are amazing, and we have had the chance to play with them for the last 10 years. Now that they are deregulated, we can finally show the consumer how great these apples are, and we are confident they are going to love them.

There are a lot of really cool things you can do with Arctic apples that normal apples aren't capable of. Yesterday we used cookie cutters to make some apple fish, stick those in some blue jello!

The anti-GMO crowd doesn't understand the opportunities available here.

Hi, Jeff Holiday here. Big fan of you guys and super excited Arctic Apples are coming to market. Couple of questions for you if you please...

Do you think biotech foods are the future of ecologically conscious agriculture?

-And-

What do you think is the best way to promote understanding in the body public about biotech foods and reduce chemophobia?

Do you think biotech foods are the future of ecologically conscious agriculture?

Yes, absolutely. They are and will continue to be at least part of the solution. Reducing inputs and food waste.

What do you think is the best way to promote understanding in the body public about biotech foods and reduce chemophobia?

Education and transparency is our approach. It seems to be working.

The apple genome is hilariously large and complex.

Did creating the arctic apple pose any interesting challenges biologically? What was your approach?

Absolutely. The target gene, polyphenol oxidase (PPO), is a gene family. So in the end we had to turn off four genes to inhibit PPO activity.

Interestingly, there is actually 19 loci of PPO, multiple isozymes on multiple chromosomes. All sorts of challenges.

It is an agrobacterium mitigated transformation using leaf ex-plants.

What is the anticipated schedule for all approvals? EPA, FDA, CFIA, Health Canada? Do you anticipate the province of Ontario blocking the sale of GMO fruit due to the Precautionary Principle?

EPA: No EPA approval is required.

FDA: Spring this year.

CFIA and Health Canada: Hopefully by early April

Do you anticipate the province of Ontario blocking the sale of GMO fruit due to the Precautionary Principle?

No.

While I'm sure there are issues with intellectual property rights, is there any possibility in the future of breeding this trait into current popular apple varieties, such as Granny Smith or Honeycrisp?

Arctic Granny is already done! We are looking at introducing these traits into other popular varieties, and will be releasing an Arctic version of Fuji and Gala next.

With respect to Honeycrisp, it's on the list.

Great job on bringing a item that will help lower costs and encourage healthy eating by children nationwide.

In Minnesota a few public schools have become 'anti-gmo'. This is a bit ironic as the state does spend a significant amount working with apples at the University of Minnesota.

http://westernfarmpress.com/blog/school-factual-learning-not-anti-gmo-rhetoric

Will you please consider sending these school districts cases upon cases of your apples once you have the supply chain up and running to make them consider using your variety in the future?

Interestingly, a Cornell study shows that kids will eat around 70% more fruit if it is sliced. Getting Arctic apples into schools seems like a good idea.

http://foodpsychology.cornell.edu/outreach/slice.html

Does the non-browning trait have any affect on crispness of the apple, as in delaying the loss of normal crispness over time?

http://www.arcticapples.com/blog/joel/arctic%C2%AE-apples%E2%80%99-appeal-more-skin-deep

There is no direct affect on crispness. Consumer perception is that a brown apple is less crisp, and we have found there is a confirmation bias that leads people to think Arctic apples to be crisper.

I've seen claims in the media that these apples will require more pesticides. Why are activists saying that--do they have any evidence of this?

I have no clue where they got this idea. There is no evidence to support this.

Our data and experience shows that a typical apple orchard spray program is as effective with Arctic apples as with other varieties.

In our field trial, Arctic and controls are co-mingled and without reading the tags it is impossible to tell the difference (unless you cut the fruit).

When will the Arctic Apple be available for consumers in the US, and do you have a way to accept pre-orders? When will trees be available for planting in NC. I can't wait!

Realistically, small quantities will be available in the Fall of 2016 in the US, but meaningful quantities won't really ramp up until the Fall of 2017 and after that.

Feel free to contact us through our website in regards to pre-orders of fruit.

There are currently limited quantities of trees available, and again you can contact us through our website to order trees in the future.

What will be the next GMO fruit that you guys work on?

We are currently focused on getting more Arctic varieties onto the market. Beyond that, we are working with agronomic traits in apple like fire blight resistance and storage scald resistance.

We also have some other exciting things in the pipeline, but it is too early to talk about them...

Cool! Can't wait for Arctic avocado!

Can't confirm or deny.

Fire blight resistance PLEASE

Give us some time, it is a complicated one. Multiple strains, and antibacterial is always a challenge.

What do the apples look like when they start to go bad?

Arctic apples still go brown, but this is only due to secondary pathogens like mold.

So a bad Arctic apple will be brown.

Crop breeder here, so I'm going to lead into a question with that in mind. The actual modification seems quite simple and at least a first glance as something that could maybe be done with more traditional breeding methods (screening mutants without the trait, etc.). Could you explain to people why you decided to go the GM route rather than methods people consider "traditional" breeding? I'm sure there was weighing of different ideas such as regulatory on the GM side, how long traditional breeding actually takes with apples, etc., so I'm just curious what got you to the route you chose for the trait.

Too be honest, I don't think that making a low-PPO apple cultivar is possible through conventional breeding, or it would take an awfully long time.

The reason is, PPO has multiple genes on multiple sites on the chromosome, so it is extremely difficult to select and breed lines that are low-PPO expressing.

The low-browing apples we have now are all due to low-substrate or other reasons, not low-PPO.

We also want to bring this trait into existing varieties. Our focus is improved traits in existing varieties versus making new varieties. There are lots of breeding programs making new apple varieties already!

How long have you been eating the Arctic Apples?

Did the GMO have any impact on flavor?

I've been secretly eating them for more than ten years.

I find the non-browning trait has improved the flavour. Since the substrate is preserved, the flavour and aroma of the fruit is also preserved. This makes for some tasty Arctic Granny juice.

Hi! I run an agriculture based organization obsessed with feeding those in poverty. GMO's offer the most exciting possibilities and advancements. However current fear over this technology is high. My simple question is, How soon (and where) can I eat these apples on camera to show people there is no reason for concern?

Send us a message through our website, we'll see if we can get you some apples this fall.

What is, in your opinion, too far when it comes to genetically modifying consumables?

When it is dangerous or unhealthy.

The regulatory agencies won't entertain even the idea of a risky product. A good example would be plant-made pharmaceuticals. These could be an efficient way to produce certain drugs, but there is no framework to bring these forward to the marketplace.

Our own goals are to bring healthful tree fruit traits to the industry, from grower to consumer.

What do you like most about apples? What is your plan for the future?

I like the versatility of apples. They can be cooked, raw, juiced, mashed, pureed, everything.

I'm going to keep planting more apples and grow my orchard business. I'm also going to keep working on developing unique and exciting products through plant genetics.

I am under the impression that the ppo enzym, and the entire cascade of reactions it actives, is part of the fruits immune system, protecting it against pathogens. Will the lack of ppo in the fruit make it more susceptible to an infection by microrobes and thus affect its shelf life?

I have another question as well. Is this the first commercial product to hit the market that uses RNA interference to silence gene expression or are there similar products already available? if there is any prior products already on the market, did this affect the research in any way?

I am under the impression that the ppo enzym, and the entire cascade of reactions it actives, is part of the fruits immune system, protecting it against pathogens. Will the lack of ppo in the fruit make it more susceptible to an infection by microrobes and thus affect its shelf life?

From our 10+ years testing and experience in the field, exhaustive data sets for regulatory purposes we have never seen any indication that Arctic apples are more susceptible to insects or diseases.

We have found that PPO is more of an artifact gene. In a modern orchard environment, it has little or no role.

I have another question as well. Is this the first commercial product to hit the market that uses RNA interference to silence gene expression or are there similar products already available? if there is any prior products already on the market, did this affect the research in any way?

No, there have been a number of products using RNAi approved and in the marketplace, most recently JR Simplot's Innate potato.

Here is a blog by Steve Savage on the topic:

http://www.arcticapples.com/blog/joel/dr-savage-rnai-mechanism-common-natural

When you started you had at least two unknown costs (and associated failure possibilities): the science, and the approvals. Would you have begun this long quest had you known what the regulatory approvals would cost - manpower, years, and money? Are you able to put some rough value on what the approvals have cost to date?

Lots. It is hard to quantify, as many of the costs were in-house staff.

Mr. Carter, Why do you feel the apple industry is so resistant to this amazing new technology? I would think they would be delighted and embrace this as a tremendous step forward for a declining product.

Good question!

As an apple grower, I too am frustrated by this. It seems that the industry is preoccupied by the risk and doesn't recognize the tremendous opportunity this offers. It won't be until we demonstrate this opportunity that we will see industry-wide buy-in.

We have had countless discussions with interested parties throughout the supply chain. It feels like everyone is afraid to be first, and everyone wants to be second.

Were there any challenges from grower groups or breeding programs when you put your trait into public varieties? If so, how did you overcome them?

There are variety owners that want to participate in our program. We haven't had any issues using public varieties, and the proprietary varieties in our program are all with the owners consent. These people see the opportunity this trait offers.

Does this extend the apple life by however many hours or does this never let the apple brown?

We have only stopped enzymatic browning, this is the browning associated with cutting and bruising. Arctic apples won't get enzymatic browning, and will maintain their natural colour until other problems such as mold take over. Molds bring their own enzymes that cause an apple to brown.

In a refrigerated environment, and after a brief rinsing under the tap with chlorinated water to control pathogens, they last more than 15 days.

What's the best path for maneuvering into a job with a start-up like Okanagan as a biologist or engineer out of college? I'm beginning an internship with a certain large agricultural biotech company soon, but I'd ultimately like to use it as a starting point to move to a smaller, more exciting company. Would your company or others like it likely favor hiring employees out of grad school any more than industry? Thanks! I'm super excited to see arctic apples hit the shelves, congrats on the progress!

Being willing to work for below-market wages! Ask our team.

What is your favourite type of pie?

Arctic granny apple pie. None of that crumble on top, I want a nice crust.

how do you defend against fruit piracy?

Given that we know exactly what we did in the apple (genetically), we have developed a simple test to identify our Arctic apples. This is unique because such DNA fingerprinting is rarely used today in the apple business.

Audit procedures will be used, but by working with growers we know and respect, we do not anticipate piracy being a problem.

What sort of legal/chemical weapons would you be able to use against a hobbyist growing your apples in their backyard?

If it was just for personal consumption, we probably wouldn't do anything.

If they are selling the fruit, we would pull it out or they would have to sign a license.

Ignorant guy here: fruit piracy?

Stealing apple varieties and propagating them for commercial use. It is a huge problem in conventional apple breeding.

A friend of mine who has an apple breeding program speculates he only gets royalties paid on 30% of the trees that are planted.

Hi Neal. I interviewed you for my school paper, so thanks for being so open even though we are a very small publication.

I'm currently working on a science-based film about genetically engineered crops called Genetically Modified Information. I would love to visit OSF's orchards as part of my film.

As an aspiring filmmaker, what do you think I should keep in mind when working on my film?

Thanks!

Unfortunately, our current test orchards are being kept secret. No tours. Maybe once we get Canadian deregulation you can come visit the Okanagan and see my orchard.

One thing to keep in mind the human side of what we do. We are just a small company founded by apple growers to improve a crop we are passionate about.

Any plans to IPO?

Not at this time.

Hey I'm from Kelowna? What do you like to do more than anything in the Okanagan?

Mountain biking.

Thanks for doing this chat! If there were one single thing you could wave a wand and have all consumers learn about your new apple, what would it be? Did we hit on any in our post about it (http://www.foodinsight.org/food-biotechnology-video-and-nonbrowning-apples)?

The one thing we would like consumers to learn is that Arctic apples are just like any other apple, except they don't brown. In fact this is how we made them:

http://www.arcticapples.com/sites/default/files/making_the_perfect_fruit_even_better.pdf

Our marketing people have wanted me to link this infographic for an hour now... so thanks for the leading question.

And as an apple grower who’s seen apple consumption stagnate over the past couple decades, I thought a great way to boost consumption and reduce food waste would be to develop nonbrowning apples!

You really think consumption has gone down because apples turn brown?

I think it's because most farmers don't understand that NPK agriculture makes large healthy looking flavorless disgusting produce.

Also because the pesticide makes your mouth itchy and causes headaches.

Most store bought apples I have had in the last 10 years were like eating soggy cardboard that made my mouth and throat burn.

You really think consumption has gone down because apples turn brown?

Consumption has gone down because apples aren't competing well in the market, for an array of reasons. Arctic apples are a solution by introducing new apple products that we feel will help increase consumption. For example, fresh-cut apple slices.